Can Supplements Kill You?
In the last 100 years, we went from not having any vitamin supplements, to having them over the counter and readily available. And yet most people don’t know how important vitamins really are. And if they take large enough doses, they can use them to prevent illness. And if they take large enough doses, they can use them to treat illness.
Why do we not hear this more, in fact, on the news we hear the opposite, that we shouldn’t take too many of those vitamins. Yet they don’t provide any evidence of that, they just say it. In fact many Drs say ’I don’t believe in vitamins’. But what about the actual facts.
Well over the last 23 years, according to the American Association of Poison Control Centres, there had been a total of 10 deaths alleged to be caused by vitamins. That’s 10 in 23 years. That’s less than half a death per year. And these are unproven, unverified, but they are attributed to vitamin consumption.
We have a nation where the very thing that will help people is being presented as actually dangerous. There have been studies that report to show that if you take an extra multi-vitamin every day that it’s going to hurt you. There are studies that say that vitamin C will cause a kidney stone. Well according to Andrew W. Saul, Therapeutic Nutrition Specialist and Author;
"I’ve searched the medical literature and I’ve asked all my students to search the medical literature, and my colleagues to search it, and as soon as they find scientific evidence of a Vitamin C caused kidney stone send me the paper, send me the reference. It’s been 30 years and I’ve never gotten one. Now either everybody’s dumb or it’s a myth.
There’s an assumption that vitamins are basically like drugs and should be regulated like drugs. There’s an assumption that if it’s therapeutically valuable, it must be dangerous, because drugs are. So, we have been taught our whole lives to be consumers, mostly consumers of modern medicine, which is pharmaceutical medicine.
A doctor goes to medical school, gets a medical education, practices medicine, prescribes medicines and is called an MD. Well, let’s put nutrition into that and see how it sounds. My Dr is a nutritionist who went to nutritional school, studied nutrition and has a nutritional degree and prescribes nutrients. It sounds very strange. When we say ‘I went to the Dr’ it’s implicit that the Dr was a medical Dr."
As far as I am concerned as much as medical doctors can help us when we are sick, proper nutrition and this can include taking nutritional supplements, can prevent us from getting sick in the the first place. To me there is not better medicine than making sure your body gets what it needs and that vitamins and mineral.
Join the debate, what do you think?
Pete
The main reason I don't take vitamins? They are expensive and I HATE taking pills.
I wonder if the reason suddenly supplements are being presented as dangerous is that increasing numbers of people are turning to natural healing methods and the pharmaceutical companies are feeling threatened? I wonder if they just want to take the profits from the supplement industry for themselves?
As for whether they can kill you? I think most things in life when done to excess probably can. But the body will soon tell you if something doesn't agree with you anyway surely? Maybe one could question as to whether certain supplements should be on the shelf for anyone who can walk in a shop and self medicate without proper knowledge or consultation from an expert first such as a nutritionist or a naturopath?
Obsession with avoiding death is probably more likely to kill you in the end than taking supplements. I know people on as many as 42 different pills a day prescribed by medical doctors. What a shame. How can their bodies ever have a chance to heal?
I don't take a supplement as I hope I get enough from my food.
Is the question do they work and at what price?
This is an interesting debate. While there is no apparent solid evidence according to your article of overdoses of viatmins causing (and this is surely a good thing!) death there certainly is evedince of toxicoses or overdoses having adverse effects. Ask any dairy farmer what happens when his cattle have had too much copper (inappetance, weakness and 'copper goggles')or why pregnant mum's need to watch their vitamin A intake and avoid liver etc ( vit A is great for cell devision and renewal but too much causes fetal malformations and there was found to be a higher incidence of this is skandinavian women who comsumed a diet high in naturally occurring vitamin A, this reduced when the necessary dietary changes were made)
I think this argument is swinging too much one way and like anything extreme needs to be treated with extreme caution, a complete avoidance of supplements is probably as damaging as an all out can't get enough approach. And lets not forget good old mother nature! Eating a really good diet of unprocessed whole grains and fresh fruit and veggies (the MINIMUM is 5 a day we should aim for 9!). I do believe that nature provides all we need but with our unatural lifestyles we don't always take full advantage! and that's where vitamin supplements have their place. But there is only so much vitamins can do, stress, environmental pollutant, sleep deprivation, inactivity and voluntary intoxication with alcohol or cigarettes will take their toll.
Last but nor least you do mention pharmaceutical companies...guess who makes the bulk of nutritional supplemets...yup read the side of the box the drug companies because - it's a lucrative industry.
Well I've had my say and I'll add yes I do take vitamin and mineral pills regularly but nor religiously!
cheers for now xxx
I take vit B, vit c & iron most days - I have no idea if they are doing me any good
Now I am eating more fruit & veg, I probably get enough from my diet
I do take echinacea through the winter, I get every bug going most years
I am sure it better for us to take a more healthy approach when we are ill, rather than pills
Rest, sleep & water can cure a lot illneses that docs just give pills for
Most of us do not have time to be ill, so want the quickest way to feel better
On another note, if Patrick Holford - founder of The Intitute of Optimal Nutrition in London - admits he takes daily vitamis and minerals then I am assuming there must be some health benefits (and not just that he has created his own brand of them!)
With everything in life, I think it comes down to moderation and common sense. If you think you are deficient in something then have a test to check it out.
I regularly take B12 as I eat a predominantly vegan diet.
On a slightly different but related subject - I also advocate herbal medicine. I suffer from chronic daily headaches and have done for my entire adult life. The standard medical fraternity say it's just me being "me". However, I found a fantastic herbalist last August and she has made progress where there had been non before.
I saw a neuro consultant recently and whilst he acknowledged the fact that I had had some benefits from the herbal medicine, he stated he was a "pill" man and that he would be recommending that I take these tablets forever and a day (needless to say I haven't taken him up on his offer).
So, I think all in all, the medical fraternity still have a long way to go in understanding the complexity of the human body.
Well I rattle, with my zinc, vit b, e, cod liver, calcium, ammino acids on a daily basis but even with a good diet and regular exercise I find that if I don't take my daily dose I am not 110% so if it keeps the fires burning to keep me on track then so be it - long live supplements, not everything you need has to come from food you know !
Also, I simply can't afford supplements - I'd rather spend money on good food...
Many multi-vitamin tablets are mass produced and are synthetic so it's a complete waste of time. I would rather spend money on organic food and get my nutrients that way.
I also think that PURE NATURAL supplements, e.g cod liver oil is ideal if you don't eat much fish or live somewhere where the sun isn't always out giving you your natural vitamin D. I wouldn't buy supplements from a superstore, i'd do some research and book in with a holistic nutrition advisor.
Great Debate... :0)
Perhaps the biggest supplement I take in my life are the probiotics I get from raw dairy products from my cow share. The dairy is run by 2 bovine vets and tested for 4 major bacterium weekly before I get it. My gut health seems to be loving it.
I have asked my good friend and nutrition expert, Ben Pratt to give his opinion on this subject.
I suppose what needs to come first is eating a fresh well balanced diet before considering taking supplements. The challenge is finding good quality food that is full of the vitamins and minerals that we all need for a healthy life.
Once again thanks for going the debate
Pete
The reality though is that most supplements deliver nutrients well within the accepted safety margins and, as has been stated in this debate, there are very few recorded instances of death by supplementation. (Not true for licensed medical drugs that kill tens of thousands a year).
However this debate has moved on.
To supplement or not to supplement? An interesting question and some very interesting points made so far. There are a few things to think about.
First, the points about food - real food, food from nature, being the best source of our nourishment are absolutely correct. The best way to achieve optimum nourishment must surely be from fresh food grown lovingly under the sun in healthy soils, irrigated with clean mineral rich water, picked at the peak of ripeness and eaten soon after harvesting having been prepared or cooked gently.
The reality for most of us is somewhat different. Fruit, veg and grains are grown industrially now in depleted soils (often under artificial light) and 'fertilised' with the most basic chemicals to encourage them to grow big, colourful and quickly. Most animals reared for food are riddled with growth hormones, antibiotics and have been fed with genetically modified grains grown in the same way as above. Combinations of these poorly grown crops and animals are then processed using all manner of intensive industrial processes, have flavours, emulsifiers, sweeteners, colourings and a myriad of other chemicals added and then they are sold as 'food'. It is even possible now to buy an ‘organic’ tomato that has never seen the light of day.
The reality is that most of this depleted food is 'supplemented' with a huge array of substances many of which have never been tested as safe. Sugar for example is, arguably, a 'supplement'. It is a highly unnatural product made in a similar way to cocaine that has all manner of potentially harmful effects but most of us think nothing of 'supplementing' our diets with sugar on a daily basis. How much refined sugar do we need? NONE How much sugar is safe to eat? A maximum of 10% of calories according to the World Health Organisation. When was the last time you saw a cereal packet or chocolate bar showing the extent to which it exceeded the maximum WHO guideline?
Sugar consumption is excessive in most people and, coincidentally, we now have the highest incidence of diabetes and obesity ever known. It’s not just down to sugar of course – the refined wheat and rice, the bad fats, the artificial sweeteners, the excessive heat treating of food (including the pasteurisation of milk and juice) all probably have their role to play.
But what does all this mean? It means, to me anyway, that our need for the essentials of life – vitamins, minerals, amino acids, phytonutrients, essential fatty acids – our need has never been greater. Can we get enough from modern ‘food’? I think that, for most of us, we can’t.
Vitamins and minerals are needed often in tiny quantities to have incredibly beneficial effects. They work best in combination with one another and require an efficient and effective digestive system to be absorbed and utilised. The best place to get these substances is, undoubtedly, from good, wholesome, unadulterated, fresh food. Trouble is this kind of food is hard to come by.
So, should we supplement? I would suggest that we each take a lead from our own bodies. If we feel 100% healthy, in tip top shape, have no adverse symptoms of any kind, have never felt better, feel ready to deal with anything, have more than enough energy, are in great shape and just feel fantastic. Then the answer may be no (for a while at least).
If however things are not 100%. If we’re not feeling great, if there are things going wrong, if energy is slipping, headaches are creeping in, if we feel down, tired, stiff or have too much gas. Little things, little signals that suggest we could do better – then supplementing is potentially a very good idea. It can never be a replacement for food. A tablet just isn’t the same thing but a decent quality supplement programme can certainly help boost key nutrients that have gone missing from our food.
Sorry, this has turned into a bit of an essay! One last point. It has been suggested in this debate that supplements are ‘knocked’ because the drug companies want to keep selling drugs to sick people. Well this is most likely true. The other point, that pharmaceutical companies make most of the supplements is also true. So why would drug companies want to discredit their own products?
Well here’s the rub. Food supplements, I believe, have the potential, alongside real food to virtually eradicate all known diseases. If this became accepted knowledge then they would become available on the health service. Now because you can’t patent a vitamin or a mineral and they can be quite easily manufactured the price would crash. So the pharma companies want to be able to sell high cost drugs to the government (health service) on the one hand to ‘treat’ all the diabetes, heart disease, cancer, arthritis etc etc. At the same time they want to sell highly inflated priced supplements to the people who know they need them. This way they get the best of both worlds. It’s a very clever strategy. Discredit supplements enough to scare off the health service but leave enough positive news out there to keep people buying them over the counter.
What do I suggest? Eat as close to nature as possible. Organic, local, fresh and prepare virtually all meals from scratch. Take a double dose high strength multi every day, an antioxidant and then, if necessary, additional nutrients based on what’s going on at the time. Different strokes for different folks. Needs change over time. Different nutrients have different effects. It isn’t easy.
Can supplements kill you? Yes – if you leave them on the shelf or in the drawer. What’s really killing us though are the hidden ‘supplements’ in our ‘food’ and the ‘depletions’ in our food from poor growing and processing.
Must stop – nobody will have read this far!!
Pete, I love these debates! :)
i have regular blood tests at the doctors surgery and am prescribed iron and vitamin C (my bone density is now holding its own thankfully). My nutritionalist also prescribes zinc and b6. I am now full of energy, feel great and am told i look 10 years younger than my age.
Who knows what makes me feel this good, but i know that without my supplements, even with a balanced (vege) diet, i end up tired, irritable, and feeling terrible. This isnt psychological as my blood tests prove.
By the way, my old dog was poisoned by a "harmless" chemical fertiliser sprayed on the field behind my house a week previously. After 6 months of intensive medication the vet gave up hope of him surviving. In desperation they suggested homeopathy. Turns out the poison had depleted his chromium levels so after a course of chromium he was bouncing with health. You cant say its psychological when its a dog can you?
I now eat an organic diet - if "harmless" chemicals can do that, what do all these growth hormones and additives do to us?
In 2003 the Nutrition Institute of America estimated that in the US some 784,000 people die annually due to medical mistakes and 2.2million are injured by prescription drugs. (2)
In 2006 the UK’s chief medical officer Sir Liam Donaldson, said the risk of being killed by a medical error was 1 in 300. This means you are 33,000 times more likely to die if you go into hospital than if you fly on an airline. (3)
In 2007 in the US there wasn’t a single death caused by a vitamin or dietary mineral according to the American Association of Poison Control Centres. (4) The US is the largest consumer anywhere in the world of vitamins and minerals.
Conclusion?
Eat good food. Take good supplements. Avoid licensed medications and stay out of hospital!
(1) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3856289.stm
(2) http://www.stopcancer.com/medicalmistakes.htm
(3) http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2006/nov/07/heal...
(4) http://www.orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v05n0...
Having read through the comments offered by many of you I agree with much that has been said. I would have to agree with the points Drew has made that there are considerably higher odds of dying or suffering an adverse reaction from prescription medications than there is from supplementation. The US study Drew talked of that noted so many deaths from medicines was actually published in the Journal of the American Medical Association and the authors were mindful that it would be read by many doctors and medical professionals and they stated that their calculations were very conservative so as not to create too much trouble. They only included deaths from those who took medications as prescribed by their doctor - this does not include those who self prescribed or those who took meds above the doctors recommendations. In 2002 medication was the 3rd biggest cause of death in the USA behind CHD and cancer.
There are much bigger concerns than whether or not a supplement may have a small adverse effect. However, we must also be informed and research any supplement you are looking to take. With so many companies out there all trying to make money out of selling their products the quality of many supplements on the market can be fairly poor. I am not suggesting it will make you sick or do you harm, but it may do little to improve your health and burn a hole in your pocket at the same time. A few thoughts regarding supplements that may help in making decisions are:
1. Choose those that have been extracted from foods only - avoid synthetic lab made products
2. Look for strong evidence that the nutrient supplied is well proven and tested to bring about the benefits claimed - many supplements live off popular myths and have little supporting science
3. Look into the company who produces the supplement and determine their position in the market and their ethics
4. By organic where possible
Remember that the key to using supplements is in their name - they are supplements. They should only be used to support a high quality, nutrient dense, natural diet, not make up or replace the need to eat good food. Eating poor quality foods and then taking a supplement will offer little benefit.
Eat well first, then if you seek additional support be sure to choose wisely.
Great discussion and thanks for inviting me in on this one Pete.
Ben
Ben and Drew are two people I hold in very high regard and value their opinions.
What a great debate,
Thanks
Pete
Fully endorse all Ben's points and the only other (minor) thing I would add is that when supplementing variety is often a good idea. Different companies use different forms and different excipients etc etc. Variety in food is good and variety in supplements is good too. Change your brand and, as Ben says, research the company and the contents as much as you can.
Over and (possibly) out! D
What a shame the medical profession and those working in the "alternative" field cant work closer together rather than in competition all the time.
If vets can use natural products along with the chemical ones, why cant the NHS or is it all financial / political?
Thanks so much for keeping it real it couldn't have come at a better time for me. I was doing well using your tools and then I had a glitch at work where one of the managers was treating me like a child and like a child I started to eat 'junk'. I know I need to make sure I put my feelings first, like many people working the boss knows there are fewer opportunities out there and some of them treat you as if your worth ten a penny. I know I'm worth more than that and I will having heard what you have to say, do what'sbest for me. Thank you love watching your posts, and seeign people's comments that cheer me up.
I take a multi vit which is high in B vitamins and really notice the elevation in PMT symptoms if I don't take it, as well as a drop in energy levels particularly in the evenings. I also take a high strength vitamin C which is a hangover from my days as a smoker. Finally I take an omega 3 supplement and again notice that I have drier skin if I forget to take it.
Whilst I agree to an extent that we should be able to get most of our nutrients from food, I also believe that the quality of soil has depleted and despite our best efforts, it's not always easy to have a balanced diet. In these instances, and to help with other minor ailments, I think it's fine to supplement